When you are considering whether or not to make a penalty double of their part score contract, you should be aware of the "guidelines" of 10 & 12 which address the twin and intertwined issues of the penalty doubles own trump suit length and trump suit strength.
One of the underlying assumptions is that the HCP will be more or less evenly divided at worst. Thus, you will have every reason to expect that your side has at least 20 combined HCP.
The 12 part of the guideline helps you determine if your trump length is adequate. To do this, you add your own trump length to the number of tricks the opponents have contracted for. If the total is 12 or more, your trump are long enough.
The 10 part of the guideline is used to determine if your trump STRENGTH is adequate. Add the number of your expected trump tricks to the total number of tricks they have contracted for. If the total is 10 or more, WHACK it.
REMEMBER - both your trump LENGTH and your trump STRENGTH must be adequate to double for penalty (or leave in a takeout double) at the one, two, or three levels.
One of the underlying assumptions is that the HCP will be more or less evenly divided at worst. Thus, you will have every reason to expect that your side has at least 20 combined HCP.
The 12 part of the guideline helps you determine if your trump length is adequate. To do this, you add your own trump length to the number of tricks the opponents have contracted for. If the total is 12 or more, your trump are long enough.
The 10 part of the guideline is used to determine if your trump STRENGTH is adequate. Add the number of your expected trump tricks to the total number of tricks they have contracted for. If the total is 10 or more, WHACK it.
REMEMBER - both your trump LENGTH and your trump STRENGTH must be adequate to double for penalty (or leave in a takeout double) at the one, two, or three levels.
A reiteration:
When you are considering whether or not to make a penalty double of their part score contract, you should be aware of the "guidelines" of 10 & 12 which address the twin and intertwined issues of the penalty doubles own trump suit length and trump suit strength.
One of the underlying assumptions is that the HCP will be more or less evenly divided at worst. Thus, you will have every reason to expect that your side has at least 20 combined HCP.
The 12 part of the guideline helps you determine if your trump length is adequate. To do this, you add your own trump length to the number of tricks the opponents have contracted for. Thus, from the example hand we played tonight, where the auction went
Karen Mark You Natalie
1C PASS 1H PASS
2H 2S
Your hand:
S: Q 8 6 5
H: K J 10 7
D: K 7
C: J 9 4
We were vulnerable, you were not.
My 2S bid put us at the 8-trick level. So, adding your 4 trump to the 8 trick level equals 12, and thus, you have enough trump to make a penalty double.
Your partner has opened the bidding (usually 12+ HCP, maybe even 13 for a solid and upstanding partner such as Karen). So your side will have 22-23 HCP, maybe a few more (Karen's raise to 2H shows a hand in the 13-15 HCP range.) Actually, including distribution, she's closer to 17 as her hand is
S: J
H: A x x x
D: Q J x
C: A K 10 x x
14 working HCP plus a singleton, a six loser hand with 4-card trump support, there are many players who would have raised directly to 3H with this hand (in which case, you will not be hearing me call 3S)
So, the points are evenly divided or better in your favor, and you have sufficient trump length. Now, do you have sufficient trump strength? This is where the "guideline of 10" comes into play.
The guideline of 10 says to add the number of tricks they have contracted for (eight tricks in the two spade example) and the number of expected trump winners in your hand. Here, in this example, your expected number of trump winners is only ONE. If you held Q-10-x-x of spades, behind the spade bidder, you could reasonably expect to win two trump tricks. QJ9x would be even better. As a defender, count a 5th trump as a "nuisance winner."
You really only have one trump trick. And 8 + 1 = 9, so you don't have enough trump tricks to double. You are better off doing as you did, bidding 3H (inviting game, as you and Karen play, I assume.)
The real fly in the ointment was me - I made a horrible delayed overcall. Much more effective to have overcalled one spade directly over one club, which will deprive you of bidding space.
Hope these comments help.
Really enjoy playing with you two. Looking forward to the next opportunity.
Best regards always,
Mark
One of the underlying assumptions is that the HCP will be more or less evenly divided at worst. Thus, you will have every reason to expect that your side has at least 20 combined HCP.
The 12 part of the guideline helps you determine if your trump length is adequate. To do this, you add your own trump length to the number of tricks the opponents have contracted for. Thus, from the example hand we played tonight, where the auction went
Karen Mark You Natalie
1C PASS 1H PASS
2H 2S
Your hand:
S: Q 8 6 5
H: K J 10 7
D: K 7
C: J 9 4
We were vulnerable, you were not.
My 2S bid put us at the 8-trick level. So, adding your 4 trump to the 8 trick level equals 12, and thus, you have enough trump to make a penalty double.
Your partner has opened the bidding (usually 12+ HCP, maybe even 13 for a solid and upstanding partner such as Karen). So your side will have 22-23 HCP, maybe a few more (Karen's raise to 2H shows a hand in the 13-15 HCP range.) Actually, including distribution, she's closer to 17 as her hand is
S: J
H: A x x x
D: Q J x
C: A K 10 x x
14 working HCP plus a singleton, a six loser hand with 4-card trump support, there are many players who would have raised directly to 3H with this hand (in which case, you will not be hearing me call 3S)
So, the points are evenly divided or better in your favor, and you have sufficient trump length. Now, do you have sufficient trump strength? This is where the "guideline of 10" comes into play.
The guideline of 10 says to add the number of tricks they have contracted for (eight tricks in the two spade example) and the number of expected trump winners in your hand. Here, in this example, your expected number of trump winners is only ONE. If you held Q-10-x-x of spades, behind the spade bidder, you could reasonably expect to win two trump tricks. QJ9x would be even better. As a defender, count a 5th trump as a "nuisance winner."
You really only have one trump trick. And 8 + 1 = 9, so you don't have enough trump tricks to double. You are better off doing as you did, bidding 3H (inviting game, as you and Karen play, I assume.)
The real fly in the ointment was me - I made a horrible delayed overcall. Much more effective to have overcalled one spade directly over one club, which will deprive you of bidding space.
Hope these comments help.
Really enjoy playing with you two. Looking forward to the next opportunity.
Best regards always,
Mark
thank you mark, this is very helpful. i never double this kind of interference, i'm glad i considered it at least. i got bumped off while thinking about it, which i took as a caution, an omen of sorts, not to double. now i have something more rational to count on than random omens. if i determine that dbl is not an option, what is a better way to invite my partner than 3h after your interference? 3h might only look competitive, right? reggie
IT HAS ALWAYS been the case that the biggest points you will ever earn at the table occur on misfit hands when one side or the other gets caught speeding. (WHACKED) If you are setting all your doubled contracts, you are not doubling enough. Setting 75-80% of them is about right. those 1100's, 1400's, etc etc are just GINORMOUS.
if i determine that dbl is not an option, what is a better way to invite my partner than 3h after your interference? 3h might only look competitive, right?
Bingo! Damn straight - 3H should cannot be either invitational or competitive, because then you partner will never know which hand you hold. It has to be one or the other, and your partnership should have discussed the matter so that you have both agreed. I almost started to go into this in my e-mail to you last night.
My recommendation is that when your opponents contest your fit auction at the two-level, a simple return to 3-of-your agreed suit by responder is competitive only, saying, "I would rather we take our chances declaring three of our suit than defending two of their suit. I have no interest in bidding game, so partner, please pass."
Thus when responder wants to invite game in these situations, she rebids a new suit which is not an offer to play in that new suit (since you have agreed on a major suit), but rather a help suit game try, showing about 10-11 points and asking opener (who has already limited her hand) to re-evaluate her cards.
If you had wanted to invite game (on the auction that you had last night), I'd suggest a rebid of three diamonds rather than three clubs - even though from your point of view, your partner needed very strong clubs in order for you to have a shot at making the contract. The reason I recommend 3D is that your partner might take 3C as competing only (since that was the suit she had opened) with club length and bad hearts, perhaps.
S: J ................Q 8 6 5
H: A x x x ..........K J 10 7
D: Q J x ............K 7
C: A K 10 x x .......J 9 4
1C ...... p ........ 1H .... P
2H ...... 2S ...... 3D --> if you decide your hand is worth a game try.
For the record, I would not have made a game try over 2S with your hand, but simply passed, like a wimp instead, figuring that for offensive purposes (declaring) the Q865 of spades was not worth 2 points, (because partner is likely to be short and can hopefully ruff spade losers), but for DEFENSE, Q865 looks pretty good.
Great questions you ask, as always Regina. You think like a bridge player (and a lawyer).
Mark reggie
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